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As both birdjam and Caban have already noted, Tennessee defensive line coach Lance Thompson is leaving the Vols to take the Alabama outside linebackers position recently vacated by new Vol defensive coordinator Sal Sunseri. You can't really blame the guy; he's been passed over twice now for the UT DC position, and -- heads up, joke coming -- it appears that the quickest route to the top at Tennessee right now is to bounce off of Nick Saban. Yeah, I know he's worked with Saban before, but y'all know how bouncing works, right? Bounce, BOUNCE, BOUNCE!!!
Okay, so you can't fault him, and coach Thompson is saying all of the right things on the way out the door, so good for him. But having six vacancies on a coaching staff is having six vacancies on a coaching staff. Yeah, I wrote it that way because that's what people do when they want the conclusion to be forgone but don't really know what that conclusion should be. I see norcalvol's footprints on this road I'm traveling, a spongy path that smells faintly of maple syrup, and I think I'm going to end up in the same place he is, namely at a tepid conclusion that these varyingly traumatic moves may turn out to be just what we need for 2012. Or maybe not, but if not, what's the difference?
On one hand, losing defensive coordinator Justin Wilcox to the West Coast is bad. Replacing him with Sunseri feels like loss mitigation to a degree, but I don't know that it gets us back to zero. We'll have to wait and see on that. On the other hand, trading Sam Pittman for Harry Heistand really feels like a net gain. And getting Jay Graham home, well, that feels like pure positive, right? But the simple fact of more change? Ack.
Adversity is the Great Sifter. Shake anything hard enough, and stuff starts to fall out. Does the source of or the reason for the shaking matter? Does it matter whether Heistand was asked to leave, whether Wilcox scurried off a sinking ship, or whether Dooley's just trying to hold on for dear life while the world quakes around him? Down deep In some of the minutia it probably does, but the net result is the same. Things change. And sometimes they seem to change all at once, and sometimes that change is good and sometimes it sucks the life out of you.
So what should we make of all of the changes in the coaching staff? Only this: Yep, it's changed. The rest of it, we won't know until this fall, and oh, that is a long way away.
0 recs | 84 comments
One of our prospects (LB Richie Brown) on how it affects recruiting
from Scout
Incipient_Senescence - January 16, 2012
Exactly right
Now that’s a mature reply from a kid who sounds like he’s well grounded.
phil g - January 16, 2012
What a smart kid!
Brad Shepard - January 16, 2012
Let's get him!
sddbaker - January 16, 2012
yes please
Incipient_Senescence - January 16, 2012
That's also a refelction on the benefit of recruiting and developing character
Teams with good players who are also good people create its own attraction, particularly for other high character, high talent players.
phil g - January 16, 2012
the quality of the kids CDD is bringing in
is what gives me hope in spite of all the “lost the team” rumors swirling around after the Kentucky game. Might’ve lost the juniors and seniors, but he’s bringing in grounded, character guys that aren’t going to stop when the going gets tough.
Incipient_Senescence - January 16, 2012
To be honest, outside of Jackson, there wasn't a whole lot of talented Juniors and Seniors to lose
The real problem was the gap between the low number, less talented upperclassmen versus the larger number, more talented lower classmen. The upperclassmen just didn’t have the leadership credibility to provide leadership to the youngsters and combination of injuries and physical/mental fatigue of the youngster combined with the lack of leadership from upperclassmen doomed us against Kentucky. After that brutal schedule and the injuries and lack of continuity caused by the injuries, that team was just done burnt out. Don’t think there was much more blood to be squeezed from that turnip.
phil g - January 16, 2012
Agreed
and even among the underclassmen, particularly on offense, the only two real potential leaders to step out (Bray & Hunter) were the big injuries that caused a lot of continuity. The team started falling apart, imo, in that 4th quarter of the Georgia game.
falconnuke - January 16, 2012
yep
phil g - January 16, 2012
Take this as sour grapes or whatever but
If this doesn’t affect McCullers or O’Brien and no recruits leave us because of this then this is a win for our staff.
Thompson was supposed to be an elite recruiter and OK coach. It was never that way at UT because the two states he normally recruits (Alabama and Georgia) had so much success, it was nearly impossible for him to have major success there. He still pulled AJ and Randolph, along with a few others. But nothing irreplaceable. Nothing like Sirmon was.
We now have $400K to go out and hire an elite coach or an elite recruiter. Or the combination of both. What if we use that money to hire Steele? Tyrone Nix? Kacy Jones? This won’t be good for perception, but we are UT. The perception is terrible right now anyway.
Bottom line is Dooley has longer than two minutes to assemble his staff now if it doesn’t affect recruiting. We could seriously have an all-star staff.
Can’t blame LT for going to the national champs after he was passed over twice for DC. He helped hold together a couple of recruiting classes, so he did his job here. But he never did ABOVE his job for us. IMO.
Brad Shepard - January 16, 2012
I don't think that's sour grapes; I think that's spot on.
phil g - January 16, 2012
He also basically coached two positions in 2010 as Chucky wasn't ready for prime time
So he did good work in a very chaotic environment. Best of luck to him.
phil g - January 16, 2012
sounds about right to me
now the all star staff just has to win long enough that we’ll get to see what they can do over a full recruiting class.
also, you know, what Derek Dooley can do recruiting when he’s selling kids on a 9-3 team instead of a 5-7 one. Because what he’s done to save the class after Sirmon left was nothing short of remarkable
Incipient_Senescence - January 16, 2012
Go read the recent post at the 'feelslike98' site
for a very different view of Dooley than we’ve been getting from Basilio’s ‘insiders’ and the cynics at 8th Maxim and the retards at Volnation, http://www.feelslike98.com/uncategorized/sunseri-how-it-all-went-down/01/13/2012/
If true, makes you feel a lot better about Dooley. It is possible that Hart is doing everything he can to help Dooley succeed here. Due to the nature of the turmoil and roster issues it was going to be a tough two years for any coach, particularly for any coach without a gold plated track record.
phil g - January 16, 2012
I hope all that's true.
It’s really good stuff. But it doesn’t really jive with coaches leaving for sub-lateral jobs. That’s really the confusing part to me, I guess.
TennesseeTyrants - January 16, 2012
Let's break that down a bit "sub lateral"
Wilcox/Sirmon could be viewed as sub lateral but to them getting back to the West Coast to a traditionally good program was a win for them. Word on them has been they were ready to leave for the first viable Pac 12 job that opened. U Dub certainly meets that.
HH was probably leaving ahead of being told to leave, so I don’t count that one, same with Baggett, although I would suspect Baggett would have been retained but with expectations of improvements in certain areas he wasn’t willing to work on, i.e., recruiting (my speculation)
Russell see Wilcox/Sirmon although WSU is a definite program step down but working for your boss who you’re close with apparently trumps that
That leaves Lance. Taking another position coach job is certainly a lateral, but taking it on the National Champions for the best coach in college football and able to recruit an area like Mobile where you’ll have more success is certainly not ‘sub lateral’
Coaching changes are going to happen after a 5 win season at a program like Tennessee. With the exception of Wilcox/Sirmon I would be disappointed if the same cast of characters had all returned.
phil g - January 16, 2012
I think Wilcox is the only sub-lateral move
Notre Dame is a lateral move. Alabama is not. I don’t think any of us wept to see Hiestand go, but I don’t hold it against him and it doesn’t make me worry about Dooley. And if I was Lance Thompson, I would’ve done the same thing.
Will Shelton - January 16, 2012
Regarding HH
It is only a lateral move if he did it of his own free will, if there was a threat of firing than it is not lateral but a necessary step to stay employed somehow.
Wilcox is only truly sublateral if he was hell bent on getting out of the SEC oven and over to the PAC 12 which is a step up from WAC and less of a pressure cooker than SEC also returns closer to family, friends and professional network. I think Dooley was refering to Wilcox with some of his comments in the presser.
phil g - January 16, 2012
Yeah, he pretty well said as much
Dooley, I mean.
_trey_ - January 16, 2012
Should have read "wasn't hell bent" instead of "was"
phil g - January 16, 2012
All just hearsay, but...
With respect to Wilcox, I had heard many rumblings that the relationship between Dooley and he was a bit strained. They had differing philosophies, is what I had heard. Not saying that this is true, but it is within the realm of belief. With Wilcox wanting to get back to the Left Coast, throw in a little bit of friction between him and Dooley, and taking the UW job doesn’t look like a sub-lateral move at all.
And to be fair, all the talk about “This is Tennessee!” and talking about what a traditional powerhouse we are, is misguided, in my opinion. Yes, we are one of the more successful programs out there, but to be fair, the program was in a tailspin for the last few years of Fulmer’s program, and the churn in the coaching staff, combined with a depleted roster, have made Tennessee something less than a juggernaut. I’m not saying that we don’t have a fabulous tradition and tremendous support and facilities to base the program on, but right now, in this very moment, we are not as stable as UW. And as we all know, coaching is a profession that is very focused on the immediate, “What have you done for me lately”, sort of measurements.
ChicagoVol - January 16, 2012
excellent points
phil g - January 16, 2012
Yeah, I was referring to Wilcox and Sirmon as the sub lateral moves.
Every other move is easily explained, to me.
TennesseeTyrants - January 16, 2012
They may be sub lateral
But that doesn’t necessarily reflect poorly on Dooley nor is it unexplainable. It is unfortunate.
phil g - January 16, 2012
That's an interesting viewpoint, and...
a situation that I was thinking might have been taking place. With all of the misinformation being thrown around by a lot of the local Knoxville media (I refuse to consider Hyams, Basilio, Travis and the rest of those trolls journalists, so let’s just call them media), I was beginning to wonder if some of the leaks might have elaborate ruses. “it’s Randy Shannon!”, “It’s Kevin Steele!” No it’s not, and likely it wasn’t ever that way. It was all just poor journalism that just serves to generate a sky-is-falling atmosphere among the Chicken Littles of the Big Orange faithful
It seems relatively certain, after the fact, that Dooley and Hart agreed that Sunseri was their #1 choice, and were waiting until after the NCG to speak with him. All of the other detritus blowing in the wind prior to Sunseri’s interview was just that: Poorly informed, badly sourced rumors that showed more about the people spreading them than about the inner workings of our program.
ChicagoVol - January 16, 2012
and with modern communication technologies can be spun up into huge controversies overnight
The fact that Rucker delivered the ‘official’ news tells us who’s in and playing nice and who’s not.
I for one would much prefer to see a lot more homerism amongst the local media, just makes life more pleasant and this is supposed to be fun.
phil g - January 16, 2012
I like Wesley.
sddbaker - January 16, 2012
While I do't necessarily need homerism
I would like to see more middle of the road reporting. I listen to sports talk when I am in the car. When Wilcox and Sirmon left, they started selling the sky is falling and Tennessee is a dead end job with the next DC certain to be fired after an assured 6 loss season? Personally my first thought was he got tired of the SEC microscope and he and his college buddy that came to TN to work with him, Peter Sirmon decided the PAC 12 was an easier place to succeed and they wanted to go home. The South is not for everyone fellas!! Heistand left and the same day/next day a new OL coach had been announced, Dont tell me that he was not asked to find another job! Bagget retired and I won’t say anything negative because I liked him being on staff but in reality saw no improvement in the receivers as the year progressed. After the hire of Sunseri the sky temporarily stopped falling on the talk radio. But now today again the sky is falling because Thompson went to work for Saban. Of course he feels slighted I’m sure but I am sure that Dooley foresaw him leaving if he did not get the Defensive Coordinator job and this was the direction he wanted to go so obviously he dfelt it was well worth the risk. All I am asking for out of the media is how about rather than just making stuff up that they get facts first rather just speculate.
docrok - January 16, 2012
agreed on middle of the road
But if we could only have homerism or cynicism, I’ll take homerism. The petty and cheap attempt to sell ratings with doom and despair is way old.
phil g - January 16, 2012
True dat
_trey_ - January 16, 2012
There's an inside joke among computer programmers
that goes some thing like:
Programmer #1: “I had a problem: I needed to find ______, so I decided to use a regular expression to find it.”
Programmer #2: “Now you have two problems.”
The joke being that regular expressions are inherently difficult to use, so therefore using them to solve a problem just creates another problem: How to form and use the regex.
In this case, your problem is finding reliable information about what’s going on with UT football, and you are using talk radio to solve that problem. Now you have two problems: How to get info, and how to tell if what info you are getting from talk radio is actually just garbage.
To be fair, you have to use good judgement with any information source, and judge the validity of the info on a case by case basis. However, it’s worthwhile to remember that talk radio survives by getting people to tune in and listen, and nothing gets people listening like good ole-fashioned conflict. Therefore, if there is no conflict to report, it’s quite lucrative for them to manufacture it.
ChicagoVol - January 16, 2012
Yup.
Talk radio is only part news. It’s also part haze, which is what spurs callers-in and keeps things lively. Radio actually has incentive to keep news a bit murky so that they can fill the hours; otherwise, they could just run down the news in the first 10 minutes and twiddle their thumbs waiting for breaking news the rest of the time.
I don’t mind Sports Animal’s bunch so much. They’re not perfect, but they’re mostly reasonable so long as you let them have their uncertainty. I have my complaints about specific people, but mostly just ignore them.
David Hooper - January 16, 2012
Uncertainty I am good with.....
Its the inferences that they make that they pass along as fact. For instance all the coaches let because they did not like working for Dooley and did not think he was going to be able go 7-5 next year. Really? So Sal Sunseri signed on and Jay Graham signed on from schools where they had alot of stability and Sunseri was likely in line for the DC position at AL next year as Kirby Smart is probably the next Saban disciple to get a Head Coaching gig. All I am saying is that they don’t say maybe this is what happen tehy report it as this is what happened, we know for a fact.
docrok - January 16, 2012
Yeah.
There’s uncertainty done well, and uncertainty done poorly. Just because they get what they want doesn’t mean they’re adept at it.
David Hooper - January 16, 2012
Flagged for bringing up Regex
ugggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh
_trey_ - January 16, 2012
Yup.
A co-worker and I found ourselves in the position where we were considering a regex, but only after we realized that manually entering 17000+ individual file names was not a viable option. We actually timed how long it took us to enter the names manually, and figured that for anything less than 1600 files, manual entry was probably more efficient, as it took us X amount of time to generate the correct regex for that particular system. #technogeekstories,bro
ChicagoVol - January 16, 2012
That site has no credibility to me
They reported that Randy Shannon was a done deal and on his way to K-town. They reported that Da’Rick Rogers had been kicked off the team (as if it was a fact and they had inside sources confirming it). So anything they report should be considered fiction imo.
PdxVol - January 16, 2012
Just as much credibility at this point than any other sight including GVX
which is to your point not much
phil g - January 16, 2012
I'm not sure what to make of that site
in the past 2-3 weeks, they’ve also posted rumors about how Dooley has lost the team and there were several boosters seriously wanting him out a month ago. And, as Pdx said, they were wrong about Randy Shannon (I don’t remember Da’Rick). They also broke that Hiestand was leaving about six weeks before he left (early info or dumb luck?) but they broke Arnett and Stokes before the Knoxville media did.
Is there just a lot of conflicting information on the inside, or are they making crap up? Either way, I hope that article is accurate
Incipient_Senescence - January 16, 2012
^^^THIS
ChicagoVol - January 16, 2012
Seems to me like they have some legit inside connections...
…but also have no problem reporting shadily-sourced rumors. Which I rather like, actually.
_trey_ - January 16, 2012
Provided we keep McCullers and O'Brien
I agree I think the swap is at worst a push. However I do hate to see Thompson leave just because he still provided some continuity and at least he gave the perception that he really liked it here at TN. The next two defensive hires I think will be important. I believe Dooley will likely hire a safeties coach and a either a LB or DL coach and Sunseri will likely coach the other position would be my guess. It appeared that the secondary was the weakest link last year and I think he will try and add some more focus there.
docrok - January 16, 2012
this is my suspicion as well
Terry Joseph is Dooley’s boy, and apparently he does great work recruiting, but the development of our DBs has been somewhat lacking. Hire a safeties coach, keep Joseph on as recruiting coordinator, hire a DL/LB coach, and let Sunseri do the other group. That could mean Kevin Steele (who would be a great hire at linebackers coach) or even Tyrone Nix (who’s been a great DC everywhere he’s been but is currently out of a job with Nutt’s firing and can coach either front seven spot)
Incipient_Senescence - January 16, 2012
Spangler or Green
Either Tommy Spangler from La Tech or Buddy Green would either be a good hire for Safeties coach and although they are both Coordinators I doubt either makes the kind of money simply being a position coach at TN could offer. And with both Steele and Nix each out of a job right now either would be a good hire and addition because any one these four hires would bring the added benefit of Coordinator knowledge.
docrok - January 16, 2012
Al Wilson
Don’t know his status or if he desires to coach. But what a motivator he would be.
RevOrange - January 16, 2012
I'd say perfect candidate for a GA training year
like we did with Sirmon, to see if he were ready for full time position coach. but I think we already got a GA
Incipient_Senescence - January 16, 2012
I have not checked into it myself...
… but I have heard multiple radio people (including Rucker) express curiosity about whether Al has his degree. This makes me think he doesn’t.
birdjam - January 17, 2012
I'd love for Al to come home.
RockyTopinKY - January 16, 2012
So how many vacancies does our staff have right now?
2 defensive coaching vacancies and a ST coordinator?
I’m having trouble keeping up.
TennesseeTyrants - January 16, 2012
Tight ends are also currently unaccounted for
with three vacancies to fill. Rich Bisaccia with San Diego is thought to be the frontrunner for special teams
Will Shelton - January 16, 2012
Let's talk about rumors
Rumor has it that Thompson ALLEGEDLY liked to stay out late enjoying the K-Town night life. It’s possible that affected recruiting and is why there’s not much frustration over his departure.
The Life & Opinions of Boone, Gentleman - January 16, 2012
rumor has it
that Lance Thompson allegedly killed five hookers while at. . . wait a second, I think I might be getting my allegedlies wrong
Incipient_Senescence - January 16, 2012
Craig James is running for Congress
Hookers everywhere are running scared……
VolBrian - January 16, 2012
long as he's not running for Senative
Incipient_Senescence - January 16, 2012
K-Town night life.
It exists? This town absolutely shuts down at 10 PM.
David Hooper - January 16, 2012
Me and Lance Thompson go down the half barrel
pound shots, and sexually harass women like every night.
And least I think it’s Lance Thompson that I do that with.
TennesseeTyrants - January 16, 2012
I like the Half Barrel
VolBrian - January 16, 2012
Me, too!
TennesseeTyrants - January 16, 2012
it's all about the Gnome
or DG&B
falconnuke - January 16, 2012
Lance Thompson or Layla Kiffin
details get hazy.
David Hooper - January 16, 2012
Layla Kiffin makes the story much more interesting.
Disregard my previous comment.
Me and Layla Kiffin go down to the half barrel, pound shots, and sexually harass women.
TennesseeTyrants - January 16, 2012
Really? I thought she fled the region fearing for her life.
phil g - January 16, 2012
My clubbing experience the night before last...
Speaks otherwise.
CDarwin - January 16, 2012
Yes, Lance Thomas was there.
CDarwin - January 16, 2012
Also Lance Thompson.
CDarwin - January 16, 2012
lol
VolBrian - January 16, 2012
And Lance Armstrong.
Chris Pendley - January 16, 2012
and Lance Bass?
What kind of bar were you at?
Caban - January 16, 2012
One where Lance Berkman staggers in half an hour from closing.
Chris Pendley - January 16, 2012
Lance Burton was there
but he disappeared after a while.
Yeah, I know that’s bad.
VolBrian - January 16, 2012
I actually ....
LOL’ed!!!!!!!!
sddbaker - January 16, 2012
Also...
how do you get the Twitter “follow” button?
sddbaker - January 16, 2012
Find it on your twitter account and copy the link into your SB Nation profile signature.
VolBrian - January 16, 2012
Don't forget Lance Henriksen
danmarcel - January 16, 2012
Not sure where I read it
But was there ever any truth to DD not letting LT incur the same recruiting practices he did at Alabama, where he was so successful the year before we got him. I guess only because they were “questionable.”
bsmithinc - January 16, 2012
I think I remember Brad saying something like that earlier, but I don't know where he sourced it from.
Obviously I’ll leave the actual reply to him.
Chris Pendley - January 16, 2012
Per the media panic and the Wilcox/Simon sinking-ship theory
Sark at UW just robbed Cal of Tosh Lupoi, which is a (in-conference) lateral move, at best. Rather than the doomier explanations, sounds more like Wilcox is getting the Cali band back together.
_trey_ - January 16, 2012
California Golden Blogs
Our Cal Bears SB Nation account is in full on meltdown mode.
bsmithinc - January 16, 2012
Think they are melting down...
check out Cardiac Hill…
Pitt has lost 6 straight games including a 65-39 home loss to Rutgers.
Caban - January 16, 2012
but nobody actually posts on Cardiac Hill
Incipient_Senescence - January 16, 2012
Next update on RTT...
Sal Sunseri leaves for Cal position! /troll
CDarwin - January 16, 2012
Conflict?
Is it possible that coach Thompson does not want to work or does not like coach Sunseri?
tomasacio - January 16, 2012
I think the most likely cause
is that Thompson wants to be a defensive coordinator and wasn’t considered for the opening. And even if he doesn’t get the DC job at Alabama if/when Kirby Smart becomes a head coach, you have to think your chances of moving up the ladder somewhere else are better at Alabama than Tennessee (or anywhere else) right now.
Will Shelton - January 16, 2012
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